Although this entry concerns my Presbyterian denomination, I urge all of you to read this. It signals some trends in our society which should be of great concern to thinking men and women, regardless of religious affiliation. At the October 10 meeting of the Presbytery of South Alabama, the body voted to make a radical change in the way the presbytery will be conducting its business--or not--during its meetings from October, 2007, through the spring meeting of 2008. During those meetings, the presbytery will largely dispense with committee reports, overtures and resolutions and will only conduct mandated Constitutional business. For the rest of the time, the presbytery adopted a "presbytery Sabbath," for those meetings--a format in which most of the meeting time will be taken up with discernment and prayer. The recommendation is apparently an attempt to create an atmosphere similar to that of the General Assembly's recent Joint Task Force on the Peace, Unity, and Purity of the Church. No clear-cut issue was given as the motivating factor for this radical change in presbytery procedure. I am aware that other governing bodies within the denomination are experimenting with similar procedures.
I have some practical concerns about the procedure. An overnight stay will be necessary, since these are to be two-day meetings. No details of the procedure have been worked out yet. We don't know where the meetings will be or how the expenses for ministers and elders will be met. Presumably, ministers and elders will be reimbursed by their churches, as is customary now; but the expenses will be greater. Related to that is the fact that the presbytery has already been concerned about the lack of participation by ruling elders, even for regular meetings. How do they expect to get more ruling elders involved for a two-day meeting?
My strong opposition to the idea, however, is based on far greater concerns--issues that are based on principle and a philosophical approach. We seem to be entering a time in the church--and possibly in society at large--that devalues debate, deliberation, and discussion. We are afraid to take responsibility for decisions, and so we seek consensus. In the church, we seem to think that some kind of "discernment" process, stemming from group analysis, is more likely to produce valid actions and decisions, and show us God's will, than a set of proposals rationally conceived and thoroughly discussed. Debate is now something to be feared. We are moving away from thought and more towards feelings, subjective discernment--based, presumably, on the idea that everybody will "feel better" about the results.
One of the interesting comments made during the discussion of this proposal was that people wanted an atmosphere where they could "hub someone in public, and not be embarrassed." (I can assure you that if I decide to hug someone in public, and they are willing to be hugged, I won't be embarrassed.)
There are certainly times when all of us who are believers need to pause and reflect during a busy life to discern the will of God as best we can do so. We reach many "forks in the road," and it is not always easy to know which path to take. When I seek to discern the will of God about a difficult decision or a matter of principle, I do so through prayer and meditation, Scripture reading, and serious thought as I consider a number of factors. I may do most of this individually. If it is a personal matter, I will discuss it with my wife. In any case, I may choose to consult with close friends, people I respect, or people who know and love me and care deeply about my life. I am least likely to want to spend time with a group who are largely strangers to me and who may or may not even have much in common with my understanding of the Christian faith! In any case, the vigorous debate and intellectual stimulation which come from wrestling with issues while meeting with fellow ministers and ruling elders is hardly a hindrance to the process of discernment and serious thought! If we use our best intellectual energy and engage in that kind of conversation in which "iron sharpens iron," are we not more likely to come to hard-fought decisions that will be of substance than if we merely try to throw every idea in a collective soup, regardless of its Scriptural merit or factual credibility? blank
To try to create an atmosphere similar to that of the Joint Task Force is artificial and unlikely to be successful. The participants of the PUP Task Force were together for about four years and held many meetings. The people at presbytery are likely to change over the year and are, in any event, doing something that they are required to do, not something they were appointed to undertake under very special circumstances well in advance.
Margaret Thatcher once said that "consensus is the negation of leadership." Robert's Rules of Order were popularized largely because those involved in deliberations realized the failure of the consensus method. Consensus, or the discernment process envisioned by PC(USA) idealists, serves to intimidate the minority, encouraging them to go along with things they do not approve, since there are no real Parliamentary safeguards to guarantee their right of official dissent. It is true that in the Parliamentary model, those who are not as informed on the issues or who feel less certain of the procedure, may sometimes choose to remain silent. The solution to this, of course, is not to "dumb down" the system, but to encourage officer training and better awareness of the issues. What we have chosen to do instead is sacrifice reasonable cognitive thought for vague ponderings and objective decisions with accountability attached to them for subjective discernment which will piously and self-righteously claim to "bring people together" when, in reality it will say very little. Boldness does not usually result from consensus.
I am just as eager to discern the will of God--for myself, a congregation, a denomination, or a nation--as anybody; but that discernment cannot be done by seeking to mix ingredients from the general pool of human thought with the hope of coming out with a successful recipe. I still prefer order to a kind of sanctified chaos and rational deliberation over
fuzzy spiritualizing.
13 Comments:
At 10/14/2006 09:41:00 AM , Anonymous said...
I agree with your thoughts on this. Related to a move (backwards) toward consensus is the call for "dialogue." Dialogue in the sense meant lately is not debate; rather, it is a "feel good" session in which the participants share each other's stories--and no one can challenge or critique my story. Moreover, what we find today is not simply a call for "dialogue" but a call for endless dialogue. While the concept of "dialogue" may sound fair and reasonable at first, it is being used as a way to avoid making actual decisions or reaching a conclusion that would lead to action It is a way to thwart the debate/decision process when I believes that the debate/decision process might not support my own position. In my opinion, endless dialogue is pathological and harms the body rather than helps. The body becomes stagnant, and the continual sharing of stories (which has replaced reasonable debate) becomes a form of narcissism. That's my two-cents.
W.Bogue, Hudson, OH
At 10/14/2006 11:39:00 AM , The None Zone said...
Bingo! I totally get what you are saying and totally agree. That is what Luther asked for way back in his day and yet the "church" of today is doing exactly what you describe....You are in a room full of strangers who don't know you from Adam (literally!) and they make the decision, not discussing it with you, but soley amongst themselves. There is no dialogue whatsoever. One of the distinguishing features of Lutheranism WAS DIALOGUE. We do it at the ASSEMBLY also. We rush through the agenda. Very few people get up and talk about things and largely for fear of bumbling and stumbling over the proper parlimentary procedure. I think people nowadays have forgotten about dialogue and are threatened by it and afraid that maybe something is wrong with the procedure they thought was so great. They hold on to the procedure as if it is something sacred.
At 10/14/2006 02:33:00 PM , Anonymous said...
Lady Thatcher also said: What great cause would have been fought and won under the banner, "I stand for consensus"?
Every Christian must ask: Is my faith a matter of opinion or a matter of fact?
50 million of your most respected friends can deny a fact, but that doesn't mean it isn't true.
TULIP is the only Biblical, logical explanation of how lost sinners become eternally secure saints. It is a FACT.
At 10/14/2006 02:41:00 PM , Anonymous said...
I completely agree. However, it is difficult to resist when the group has already been (peer?) pressured into accepting a recommendation coming from a task force such as we had at last meeting. Unless you have inside knowledge, and able to persuade with some of the good points you have rightly put forth, the train leaving the station is most difficult to derail. I'm not against "feeling good" about my colleagues, but I am very disturbed about a feel good process that sends a message (to our own church membership) that there is something to reflect and meditate upon per a Scriptural or Book of Order mandate. I am really embarrassed about it, but do not know what to do except enter into the slow-train process already adopted by my colleagues.
I know other conservative evangelicals like myself who are "going along with the flow" for now, hoping the process at the national level will prove a failure, which it surely will. At that point of falling apart maybe it will become obvious what we should then do in order to preserve whatever dignity and hope the denomination has left. I'm pulling for a favorable decision from permanent Judicial Commission of the General Assembly to say that the authoritative interpretation is on its face unconstitutional.
I really appreciate your writing and insights. Please keep it up.
Dan McMillan, Green Hill PC
At 10/15/2006 01:04:00 PM , Mark Smith said...
I completely disagree.
Too often today, we choose to talk AT each other, rather than TO each other. We see people not as human beings with whom we share some ideas and differ on others, but rather as the physical embodiment of ideas - usually those ideas that we don't like.
People are complex animals. Very rarely will two people be incapable of finding ANYTHING on which they agree. Or anything on which they disagree.
Our culture today (led by government and the media) is too often all black or all white. "You're either part of the solution or part of the problem." "My way or the highway." The church is like that as well.
I believe that Jesus would cry if he saw how divided we are.
Dialogue and discernment are all about knowing each other as people and fellow believers. Only when we do that do we see the full impacts of our decisions.
At 10/15/2006 02:59:00 PM , Daniel Berry said...
I think Mark's approach to dialogue is too condescending and treats adults too much like children. I respect the intellect of those with whom I disagree too much to reduce everything to dialogue of the type described here. I hvae convictions, and those convictions are part of who I am. What makes us who we are, anyway? But even though I disagree with this comment, I published it, anyway. You can't say I'm not "fair and balanced."
At 10/15/2006 03:02:00 PM , Daniel Berry said...
By the way, Jesus does see how divided we are! But I think God is, among other things, a rational being. And Jesus is God. I doubt if Jesus is weeping. But division comes, not from debate, but from unsound doctrine and practices.
At 10/15/2006 08:23:00 PM , rena said...
Totally agree. Leadership by consensus is somewhat akin to drawing straws. Majority rules?? Yeah right, and observe where that liberality has led our nations of late.
As usual, Daniel, great post.
At 10/16/2006 08:41:00 AM , Anonymous said...
I find it odd that you describe the process of decision making by consensus as "vague ponderings," "subjective discernment," "pious and self-righteous," "sanctified chaos" and
"condescending." and then congratulated yourself for being "fair and balanced." I trust that all of the above is in keeping with Robert's Rules of Order.
At 10/16/2006 08:50:00 AM , Anonymous said...
We've done some of this "discernment" type of thing before at my workplace. Basically, all that happens is that nothing gets decided--ever. The same problems and the same feelings are there, plus adding on resentment from those of us who are action-oriented. I'm not against "discernment" per se, but if it's done with no ultimate goal in mind, and no action planned afterward, it's just plain navel-gazing, and in presbytery meetings that tend to run over-long anyway, I consider it a waste of time.
At 10/16/2006 09:24:00 AM , Daniel Berry said...
I published Neil's comment and Mark Smith's comment; so I'd say I'm pretty fair and balanced. Being fair and balanced doesn't mean that you hold all thoughts simultaneously in your mind, but only that you give others the right to speak. I'll publish comments that disagree with my own position. Remember that comment moderation for my blog has been enabled.
At 10/16/2006 04:36:00 PM , Anonymous said...
On the subject of divisiveness Paul
deals with two examples of divisiveness in the same letter (1 Corinthians), and interestingly, one situation of divisiveness he reprimands, and the other he sees as necessary.
He lovingly reprimands the followers of Christ in 1 Corinthians 3 because they are all in the body of Christ, and it troubles him to see them making idols of the preachers, who are faithfully and unitedly proclaiming the same Gospel. They are allowing this idolatry of preacher-worship to unnecessarily separate the body of Christ.
In the same letter (I Cor. 11) he acknowledges that are factions and says "there must be factions among you in order that those who are genuine among you may be recognized" (11:19).
Concensus IS NOT the negation of leadership if we are conceding opinion and personal preference to Biblical truth. That kind of concensus is a sign of good leadership, and that is what Paul is seeking to accomplish in 1 Corinthians 3.
Concensus IS the negation of leadership if we are seeking to accomodate unity at the expense of truth. Paul will not accomodate unity in I Cor.l1 at the expense of truth demonstrated in genuine faithfulness to Jesus Christ.
Dialogue is irrelevant if there is no objective truth.
But there is objective truth (the Scriptures) and therefore dialogue has meaning to either (1) Bring unity within the body of Christ among genunie believers; or (2) To divide so that the genuine can be distinguished from the disingenuous.
At 10/17/2006 05:15:00 PM , Anonymous said...
Mark Smith's comments are intriguing. I am curious to know if I would agree with Mark on the "essential tenets of Biblical faith". If we could agree on the essentials, I believe there would be merit to dialogue or seeking consensus, because our discussion would be hemmed in by what we agree the Scriptures teach.
But if every idea has equal value, essential or not, I'm afraid we'd both be very frustrated. Neither one of us qualify as deciders of truth; that is the Holy Spirit's prerogative, first leading the writers of Scripture to give witness to the truth, and then affirming in our hearts what is true as we search the Scriptures "to see if these things be true..."
I believe the closer we cling to the truth (both living and written), the closer we become the answer to Jesus' prayer - that we become one as he and the Father are one. Without acceptance and agreement about clear and objective biblical truth, all discussions and times of prayer together can only lead to better understanding of each other, but the unity in Christ that we seek will be missed entirely. Unity in/with each other, in and of itself, is hardly a worthy goal worthy of followers of Christ.
Agreement and harmony in Christ, by the (Holy) book, is the kind of unity truly worth seeking --- whatever method we may use that leads us into submission to Him. Mutual submission follows this prior submission and allows for mutual encouagement and building each other up in the faith.
What do you think? I trust and hope I'm speaking to the choir...., so to speak.
Dan McMillan
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